You’re Doing Dating Wrong: Dating Frame VS Friend Frame Explained
Dating doesn’t suck. You’re just doing it wrong. The dating frame is costing most men a lot of opportunities in dating, without realizing that it is a terrible frame to set with women that sets you up for rejection and failure.
The Dating Frame VS The Friend Frame
When men are interested in women romantically, there are generally 3 frames that most men in society use subconsciously that set the tone of all their interactions with a woman of interest.
- Fan Frame
- Dating Frame
- Friend Frame
Many men become frustrated and feel like dating sucks all because they are using the wrong frame. It’s time to finally start understanding which frame you should actually be setting with women.
What Is A Frame?
A frame is ultimately a paradigm. And it accurately describes the intent behind someone’s actions.
Boring shit aside, it’s important. It determines who gets friendzoned and who gets laid.
What Is The Fan Frame?
First, let’s get the worst one out of the way… The fan frame.
The fan frame is essentially the frame most people operate within when they meet a celebrity or see someone particularly famous. It applies to both men and women.
When most people come across someone with a higher level of fame or status, they immediately put them on the pedestal.
Even celebrities also do this to other celebrities. A famous example of this is when Kesha noticed Jerry Seinfeld on the red carpet and ran over to him while he was being interviewed, telling him that she loves him, while asking for a hug. Jerry Seinfeld was weirded out by her and rejected her hug immediately.
I have had plenty of instances where people came up to me hypnotized under the fan frame, telling me they recognize me from somewhere, or they love my YouTube channel, or they want to take a photo with me.
The frame they are coming from is the fan frame. They have the intent of a fan, and they are acting like one. And, in fairness, in the moment they probably don’t know a more appropriate way to act or initiate a conversation. So they default to the fan frame.
This is a frame I cringe to even imagine myself in. Women aren’t superior to me, and neither are ‘celebrities’.
This is a general idea I have been aware of for years. Here’s a small example of how I framed things differently with one of the most famous DJs in the world, Joel Zimmerman (Deadmau5)… By handing him my phone so he takes the photo. This was back in 2018.
(Obviously I specifically wanted a photo with him, but it was a small step in the right direction)
The Fan Frame Wouldn’t Get You In These Situations
Here’s me and my girlfriend with Omid Djalili and Boothby Graffoe in 2019, hanging out like absolute besties. The backstory is that I had already met Omid twice beforehand, and he invited me to his show, and then invited me backstage afterwards. This all happened because I didn’t fall into the fan frame when I met Omid Djalili. But I definitely do appreciate his movies and comedy.
Especially The Mummy, Gladiator, Pirates Of The Caribbean, The World Is Not Enough and all the other movies I have seen him in.
The Fan Frame In Dating
When specifically applied to dating, there are a lot of men who thirst over women on Instagram, thus operating within the fan frame. Some guys leave heart eye emojis on a girl’s photo. Some guys treat women like they’re celebrities or goddesses. And some even subscribe to a girl’s OnlyFans (Clue is in the name), throwing money at girls to either gratify oneself or hope for her to notice (How pathetic he is).
When I saw one of the most famous streamers in South America, I came from a different frame than everyone else. That’s how I managed to stand out in front of millions of viewers and get her to add me on Instagram during her own live stream, in front of thousands of people watching in that very moment. All in front of my wife and daughter. And while waiting for my Uber. And with a language barrier.
It’s all frame control.
What Is The Dating Frame?
The dating frame is the frame many guys place themselves within when they want to date or have sex with a woman. The dating frame is an attempt to formalize the relationship with a woman, often by asking her out on a date. It has formal and romantic intentions behind it, and risks rejection because it’s somewhat direct.
I have seen many posts on Reddit asking for advice on how they can ‘confess’ their love to their crush. That’s the dating frame.
The dating frame ultimately seeks approval to label a relationship as romantic, so that they can go on dates and potentially fall in love.
But there’s a huge problem with this…
More often than not, the guy gets rejected and friendzoned. And that’s not even to mention the guys who didn’t have the courage to try asking her out in the first place.
The dating frame is the frame guys normally tend to fall into when they are interested in a woman romantically.
What Is The Friend Frame?
The friend frame is a frame (Paradigm) in which the friendship/relationship you have with a woman is informal and casual. This means that you’re simply two humans on positive terms with each other; friends. But it also means you can have sex, given the right conditions.
According to the Game Glossary, the friend frame is ‘setting your relationship with someone as informal from the beginning as if you were friends in order to bypass the unnecessary bullshit that comes with the dating frame’.
For example… Within the friend frame paradigm, a guy can hang out with a girl ‘as friends’ so that their interaction and time together is less serious and has no expectations. And by hanging out, it increases your likelihood of having sex because you are spending time together.
The Friend Frame Is NOT The Friendzone
Do not confuse the friend frame with the ‘friendzone’. Men get friendzoned because they tried the dating frame and it failed. So when a girl friendzones a guy, she is simply setting an expectations that you are just sexless friends.
Being ‘friends’ is just a label. It merely means you are on positive terms. Physics doesn’t give a shit about labels. The fact that you’re spending time together and having fun is the whole point of the friend frame, because only when a man and woman are physically together can the penis be introduced to the vagina. The physical existence of your penis penetrating her vagina doesn’t care what your label is. Like when a woman who labeled herself as a lesbian decided to have sex with me.
So yes, it is possible to have sex with a female friend. Your penis doesn’t magically disappear just because a girl is your friend.
That’s why the terms ‘friends with benefits’ and ‘fuckbuddy’ (And ‘sex friend’ in French) exist.
Why The Friend Frame Is Superior For Seducing Women
Men who use the dating frame prioritize asking out a girl, whereas men who use the friend frame prioritize hanging out with a girl.
Guys who use the dating frame put themselves in the position of being rejected, whereas guys who use the friend frame put the activity in the position of being rejected.
A key difference is that you’re not making it about you. You’re making it about this fun thing you can do together or something fun you happen to be doing anyway that you’re inviting her to. So she’s more likely to join you when the premise is merely fun itself. And the result is not much different than taking her on a date, it just differs how you framed it. In both cases, the best outcome is that you got her out with you. But only under the friend frame is there no risk of rejection.
The Friend Frame Gets You Beside Her
A girl’s male friend can never truly be rejected. He can only spend time with her, and spending time with a woman is one of the most significant factors in deciding who a girl chooses to sleep with.
Ultimately, a man using the friend frame sees an opportunity to spend time with a woman without attaching romantic expectations upfront. If they have a good time, they have a good time. And having a good time together helps you actually get laid. It is through her actually spending time with you that she can learn to fall in love with you or realize her attraction for you. You are just facilitating the opportunity for her to have sex with you by hanging out, instead of putting her on the spot to check if she’s into you or not before she even has the chance to get to know you well enough.
The difference between a date and an activity is absolutely nothing. It’s the same thing. It is a date but it isn’t a date, but it is a date. You’re spending time with a woman. It’s what you actually do on the date or activity that matters. By going on a date or an activity with a woman in general, you are putting yourself in the position of having sex because you are in sexual proximity with her. In other words… You have good logistics.
To summarize so far…
- Friend Frame: Informal, you’re putting the activity in the position of being rejected.
- Dating Frame Formal, you’re putting yourself in the position of being rejected.
- Fan Frame: Inferiority, you’re putting her on a pedestal.
Dating Frame VS Friend Frame Summary
| Dating Frame | Friend Frame |
|---|---|
| Formal | Informal |
| Direct Game | Indirect Game |
| Asking Out | Hanging Out |
| Managed Impression | Authentic Rapport |
| Romantic Dates | Casual Activities |
| High Guardedness | Bypassed Defense |
| Focus On Compatibility | Focus On Experience |
| Prejudgmental | Opportunistic |
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